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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
289
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:Did anyone in this team bother to talk with the CSM at all before you implement this?
Two Step for sure knows and uses probs everyday and could have told you how bad this new system/changes were, even before you wasted time implementing them.
I've been pointing out the flaws in this plan as soon as I heard the details at fanfest. Granted that was speculation, but if you had spoken to the CSM members such as Two Step before hand then you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble later on. This is bad work CCP simply throwing this one on us without even discussing it before hand.
Also I was told by CCP on the GD thread that launching 8 probes would still be possible?? This sounds like a right mess to be honest. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 17:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ok tested this out on Singularity. The probing changes are really bad. In fact so many things are wrong I will need to spend an hour constructing a proper feedback post.
Before I do that let me ask. Is this basically proper version we are going to see before I spend my time constructing feedback?
Just off the bat a few things which need changing asap.
1. All cosmic signatures should appear in the system scanner window seeing as the DSP has now been taken away.
2. More options are needed for probe formations and layout. The pinpoint formation is good, but the spread formation??
3. 8 probes need to be bought back and other variations under the standard 7 probes need to be bought back.
4. Probe layouts should be much more customisable, right now you can't really do anything with them compared to the options we have pre odyysey.
Those 4 major things are pretty essential to sort out before we can even begin looking at this in depth. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 17:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Olari Vanderfall wrote:Tonto Auri wrote:That's exactly what they tries to combat with DSP removal. Don't hold your breath for it coming back in any form. This can be dealt with without removing DSP. It might take a more creative approach but it should be possible to randomize sig strength results at lower signal strengths so there is overlap among sig types so you can't be sure of the type. The scanner doesn't display sig strength anymore.
What happened to CCP supporting emergent gameplay? Come on CCP, if this is true then you are really dropping the ball on this one.
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 18:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ive figured a way to get other probe formations. It is quite long winded though. You have to launch 7 probes to begin with, and then recall each probe you don't want, which kind of defeats the purpose. Also probe formation are still customisable which is good, but options for 8 probes need to be bought back, launching 8 probes should be the standard option. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 20:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lets try not to turn this into a "wah I want my skills reimbursed thread". There are much more important matter at stake here. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 20:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Robus Muvila wrote:Two step wrote:
CSM was not consulted about these changes. We found out in an article on themittani.com
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha 
Wow. WTF is that about? Why is Mittani being consulted instead of the CSM..... |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 20:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Olari Vanderfall wrote:Two step wrote:Unforgiven Storm wrote:After I tested this and read this thread I only have one question in my mind:
Did anyone in this team bother to talk with the CSM at all before you implement this?
Two Step for sure knows and uses probs everyday and could have told you how bad this new system/changes were, even before you wasted time implementing them.
4 weeks to go, 2/3? before a code freeze?
If this hits singularity like it is, its going to be another s**t storm similar the inventory window one.
/facepalm
I'll answer that, and as you might have expected, the answer is no, CSM was not consulted about these changes. We found out in an article on themittani.com that we would be able to save probe formations. We found out at Fanfest about the probe results UI. We found out about the 7 probes/removal of DSPs from this thread. Not surprising. I saw your earlier post and knew no one was consulted. The 7 probe formation yells noob. Removal of DSP and distance screams ignorance. By all means make it accessible, but leave some depth to probing.
Yes pretty much spot on. When I first heard the proposals I had a feeling the hadn't actually consulted anyone who actually scans in the game and knows about its intricacies. This is even more evident testing it on Singularity right now.
Two things CCP should do right now to sort this out in my opinion -
1. Allow amount of probes launched to be selected by right clicking the module from 1 probe up to 8.
2. Bring back the scanning overview with all the cosmic signatures displayed.
They could do more, but I think for a minimum they need to bring back the scanning overview. It is kind of stupid that the signature can be displayed in space by spinning the camera around in a noobish sort of way, but you can't have all the sigs displayed in a neat table on your ships computer.
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 20:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Two step wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Robus Muvila wrote:Two step wrote:
CSM was not consulted about these changes. We found out in an article on themittani.com that we would be able to save probe formations.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Wow. WTF is that about? Why is Mittani being consulted instead of the CSM..... That is only a partial quote, and I am adding back in the rest of it. It wasn't Mittens, it was an article about the GDC player meet - http://themittani.com/news/trip-report-san-fransiscogdc-eve-player-meet
Ok, that makes sense now. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
295
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 21:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Is this a "whaaaa, you removed my exploit" post?
I'm pretty sure CCP never intended that the DSP's signal strength be a short-cut to knowing exactly what a sig is without actually scanning it down.
By the way, scan strength is still visible by looking at the sigs in space. So it may well still be possible to get a good indication of a sig still by looking at the initial strength.
I really hope CCP keep this possible as it allows players to build up knowledge and recognise patterns making them a better scanner. It is also part of emergent gameplay which I though CCP tried to encourage. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
296
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 21:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Good news. I can confirm that cosmic signatures can still be identified by their signature. There is a clear pattern which is easily recognisable by anyone who knows what they are doing. I have confirmed this with my own tests on singularity, but I'll let people find it out the pattern for themselves. :)
You do this by locating the signature in space, as opposed to locating the signature on the scanning overview. A signature strength is displayed and can be correlated to the type of signature. This still only gives a rough indication of signature type, but is obviously essential for anyone who traverses wormholes regularly.
So at least there is one bit of good news. DSP scanning is still in the game, and now accessible to even newbies. |
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
297
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 22:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Good news. I can confirm that cosmic signatures can still be identified by their signature. There is a clear pattern which is easily recognisable by anyone who knows what they are doing. I have confirmed this with my own tests on singularity, but I'll let people find it out the pattern for themselves. :)
You do this by locating the signature in space, as opposed to locating the signature on the scanning overview. A signature strength is displayed and can be correlated to the type of signature. This still only gives a rough indication of signature type, but is obviously essential for anyone who traverses wormholes regularly.
So at least there is one bit of good news. DSP scanning is still in the game, and now accessible to even newbies. Very true. Already noted most of the patterns. The primary annoyance as far as I can tell is that the only way now is to scan around in space, hover over the sig, and manually note the strength. No listed result anywhere else. As far as the scanning goes. The up changes will take getting used to but it's not the worst. Losing my 8 probe configurations are very frustrating.
Yes my thoughts pretty much exactly. Losing the 8 probes is a hit, along with having to move the camera around in space now to indentify the results is very annoying. But I guess I could get used to it so its not all bad.
It would be nice if they bought back 8 probes and made that the standard formation instead of 7.
But after playing round with it for a while it isn't as bad as I first anticipated. But still needs a bit of work though. I don't use probes for pvp much though so perhaps those guys will have a little more issue with these changes. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
303
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 11:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Morpho Aurora wrote:In halving the SP of exploration skills, presumably people that have already committed to those skills will see their SP refunded and not just get the shaft?
They aren't halving the SP of exploration skills. Seriously, were do people get this information from. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
305
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Hey all. Lovely feedback. Keep it coming. You've identified several defects and made us rethink some of our design decisions. This is what the test server is all about. Paradox has a list of the known issues in the OP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2995203Some examples of what the team has been discussing based on this thread: The purpose of Deep Space Probes is to give you a quick scan of the solar system before you start probing things down. The new system overlay already gives you this information without needing probes so Deep Space Probes are no longer needed. Most people seemed to be using 7 probes. Additionally, that number lends itself much better to isometric shapes which are easy to identify and assemble. Fixing it at 7 probes was done to simplify things for less experienced players and reduce micromanagement of probes. The overwhelming consensus in this thread is that you want the 8th probe back, so we are now working on putting it back. Switching the probe result UI from raw table to a progress bar meant that we lost this much loved functionality. We are working on getting it back. Quote:
Sort results by distance
This is coming back. Quote:
Launching fewer probes
We are changing it so that you can launch any number of probes you want (up to the maximum of 8).
GREAT! Well done CCP. All really good changes which will address most of the problems people are having in the current system. I am really pleased to see the addition of the 8th probe again. And also being able to copy results as a table again is a really nice change. Well done for listening to the feedback.
Will these changes also included allowing cosmic signatures to appear on the scan overview also? It is really annoying having to pan round in space to identify them. This kind of feature should be available on your ships on board computers. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
311
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 06:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:Penny Ibramovic wrote:
Here is my request: please add an option to unlink all currently launched probes.
A toggle option would be good, to link and unlink probes, so that they all move together or can be moved/resized independently. The cluster looks to be a time-saver for working through a system's signatures (even if it may be simplifying the process a little too much), but there are occasions when probes need to be shifted around individually. It would be definitely be harmful to w-space life if this option were not available.
Not a dev, obviously, but I really like this suggestion. It also makes it easy for you to build your own formation and then lock it together so you can move it quickly, and if there's a neat lock button (maybe on that radial menu, mmm?) then you can get access to both move in formation *and* move separately without any super-secret hotkeys you don't know about if you don't ask a friend.
You can already do this on the current version. If you press shift it allows you to manipulate the precise position of the probes, and when you let go you can move all the probes as a group. People really need to test this out on Tranq, or at least spend a little bit of time figuring out the system before jumping to conclusions and posting them on the forum. This is incorrect and I can see a lot of people repeating this misinformation throughout the whole thread.
I was one of the biggest critic of this change, but CCP is moving in the right direction now with allowing multiple probes (ei 8 probes) again. The DSP thing is the only real issue now, but I think its just one of those things we will have to forget about even though it did offer some nice options. The only thing they need to fix now is an option to display all the sigs on the scanning overview and I will congratulate CCP on a job well done with these scanning changes. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
313
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 11:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Noztra Ernaga wrote:Ok, keep the DSP then but make signature signal strength completely random.
Why? Kind of defeats the purpose of having a DSP for most cases. You can easily use the DSP scanning method now with the onboard scanner so CCP haven't nerfed it at all, in fact they've made it available to everyone now. |
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